Original Title: Zcash Founder on Privacy, AI, and How ZEC is "Encrypted Bitcoin"

Original Source: Bankless

Original Translation: Baihua Blockchain

Today, more than a decade after the birth of cryptocurrency, we stand at a delicate crossroads: on one hand, there is the full involvement of Wall Street capital and the rapid evolution of the underlying technology; on the other hand, the original Cypherpunk ideals are struggling under the complexities of user experience and regulatory pressure.

In this interview, Zuko, the founder of Zcash and a pioneer in the field of crypto privacy, shares his profound insights on the current state of the industry. He not only reflects on whether the crypto movement is repeating the mistakes of Linux but also delves into how privacy has evolved from a "technical feature" to a "survival option" in an era of rampant AI computing power.

Through the dissection of Moxie's user experience logic and an analysis of Zcash's governance experiments, Zuko paints a picture of a future that transcends mere financial speculation and returns to digital sovereignty. This is not just a conversation about technology; it is a metaphysical discussion about how human civilization can maintain free will in a high-pressure surveillance environment.

1. Reflection on the Current State of the Crypto Movement: Are We Repeating the Mistakes of Linux?

Host: Zuko, welcome back to Bankless. You have been deeply involved in the crypto industry for over a decade, and it's been 13 years since you built Zcash. Looking back from the perspective of 2026, do you think our crypto movement has achieved its original goals? Have we succeeded?

Zuko: To be honest, that's a leading question, and you probably don't expect me to give a positive answer. Hearing you ask that makes me feel somewhat frustrated and negative. It reminds me of the history of Linux. Back then, Linux was a great movement aimed at empowering ordinary people and liberating the technical threshold. But looking at the current landscape, it has largely become some underlying software that Google runs its servers on.

Host: It sounds like the idealism of the Linux movement has faded.

Zuko: Because it hasn't really helped ordinary users, nor has it scaled up enough to empower the masses. While software engineers are still keen to use it, for non-professionals, today's Linux has not materially improved their digital lives. If we allow this trend to continue, cryptocurrency in 15 years may be the same: only a few giant financial institutions using blockchain to optimize costs, while 99.9% of ordinary people gain no real power or benefit from this technology. That would be a terrible outcome.

Host: So what do you think has been the real progress we've made in the past decade?

Zuko: I am a tech enthusiast. What I am most pleased about is that cryptocurrency has funded a large number of cutting-edge cryptographic technologies. For example, the zero-knowledge proofs (ZKP) pioneered by Zcash have since been pushed into deeper realms by the Ethereum ecosystem. Without the funding and organizational structure provided by cryptocurrency, DARPA, universities, or giant companies would not have developed these achievements in the past decade.

Host: So in your view, the advancement of cryptography is the biggest victory, rather than the current market size?

Zuko: Yes. But this is actually a "mild praise." It's like we improved the Linux kernel but didn't really make the world a better place.

Host: Some might argue that price charts and Wall Street's entry are victories. For instance, Bitcoin has become a non-government-controlled digital gold, or Larry Fink's push for ETFs and RWA (Real World Asset Tokenization).

Zuko: I see these as means to improve Wall Street. If it can improve the lives of ordinary people in some way that I care about, that would be great, but currently, there are no clear signs of that.

2. The Bottleneck of User Experience (UX): Why Moxie's Critique Still Resonates

Host: What important aspects of the crypto space do you think we have overlooked?

Zuko: Absolutely the user experience part of the Cypherpunk vision. I often mention Moxie Marlinspike's (founder of Signal) viewpoint. He pointed out that the dream of Cypherpunk is stuck because there is a fatal flaw in the logic of this group. Their approach is: first, create tools that work for themselves; second, teach the rest of the world to become like them.

Host: This "elitism" path is indeed difficult to reach the masses.

Zuko: Moxie says this will never succeed. You must provide people with tools that suit their current situation without forcing them to change. If you have less than a hundred million users, you are wasting your time because you are not impacting the world at all. The current crypto industry is repeating this mistake: we create complex systems that protect freedom, privacy, and autonomous choice, and then expect ordinary people to learn how to use them.

Host: So cognitive load becomes the biggest barrier.

Zuko: Exactly. If cognitive load is close to zero, that is a good user experience. I remember Brian Armstrong once told me his regulatory response strategy: at least have a hundred million users. This aligns with Moxie's logic.

Host: From a long-term perspective, Ethereum is trying to expand beyond decentralized finance into areas like decentralized identity, computing, and AI. How far do you think this Cypherpunk vision can go?

Zuko: I hope it can go all the way because it relates to whether our descendants can grow up in a more stable and civilized society. The success of Signal has inspired me. The idea of Signal is that the user interface (UX) should reflect the underlying reality. If you are chatting using a non-encrypted software, an honest UI should display the avatars of you, your friends, the company CEO, and the system administrator in the chat box.

Host: That sounds very intuitive and chilling.

Zuko: If the CIA is listening, their avatar should also appear. Signal just corrects this "honesty." Current social platforms, like Twitter or Telegram, are essentially "honeypots." If you are chatting with five friends in a Telegram group, since it is not end-to-end encrypted by default, Pavel Durov's face should actually appear in the chat box. People need privacy, and it is technically feasible; the key is whether we can provide an interaction experience that is on par with Silicon Valley giants.

3. The Privacy Paradox in the Age of AI: When Algorithms Can Read Your Financial Intent

Host: Are you optimistic about the future, especially now that AI is changing everything?

Zuko: I am optimistic. While AI may simplify the installation and configuration of Linux and make UX no longer a problem, AI also brings new risks.

Host: Are you referring to AI's manipulation of information?

Zuko: A few days ago, there was a case where a user asked ChatGPT to correct a tutorial. The tutorial involved how to use disposable phone number services to protect personal information. In addition to correcting errors, ChatGPT proactively deleted all content related to disposable phone numbers and cryptocurrency, claiming these tools "could be used for abuse and fraud."

Host: That is indeed very dystopian.

Zuko: This is the nightmare scenario where AI does not provide you with what you want. Most current AIs follow a Web2 business model: relying on advertising and user lock-in. When AI deeply integrates your email, calendar, and financial data, it can not only predict your behavior but also guide your intentions.

Host: So what different solutions can cryptocurrency provide?

Zuko: Cryptocurrency offers a new funding model, which, although still experimental, attempts to break free from the extraction logic of Web2. We need to establish a positive cycle of "pay-per-use + open competition + no lock-in."

Host: Zcash's recent price performance has been quite impressive; does this also reflect a shift in market sentiment?

Zuko: Yes. Such a large-scale price signal is hard to fake; it proves that people do care about privacy. As AI tools can easily associate on-chain addresses, the originally transparent ledger becomes extremely dangerous, and people are beginning to realize that privacy is not an "optional feature" but a survival necessity.

4. The Metaphysics of Value Storage: The Mystery of Privacy Options and "Static Value"

Host: Many people have misconceptions about privacy protection. They often understand privacy as "cutting links during the transfer process," similar to the concept of mixers.

Zuko: This is exactly what I want to correct. Many people try to transfer from Ethereum to a new address, thinking that after some operations in between, they are safe. But in the AI era, this "Value in flight" can hardly achieve true privacy. AI can easily see through your disguise by associating your intentions and signals at both ends.

Host: So what should the correct logic be?

Zuko: You can only gain privacy from "Value at rest." I have a somewhat metaphysical viewpoint: if you hold ETH and plan to transfer it, your intention is clear, and AI can understand it. But if you choose to convert part of your assets into ZEC for long-term holding, with no clear plan for the next step, AI will be blinded.

Host: Because the act of holding itself cuts off the continuity of intention.

Zuko: Exactly. This is the "privacy option." You don't need to hold forever, but you need to hold without future usage intentions. Just like your checking account, you won't spend it all; you will maintain a certain balance. From the perspective of adversarial information theory, it is reasonable to keep 1-2 months of living funds in a privacy pool.

Host: The example you mentioned earlier about the Zashi wallet and its integration with Near Intents seems to demonstrate the practicality of this "static privacy."

Zuko: That example resonated with me a lot. When I needed to make an anonymous payment for Proton Mail, I didn't need to ask the other party to accept Zcash. I just needed to scan the code in the Zashi wallet and complete the payment through Near Intents. To the outside world, it was just a regular transfer, while the source of my assets and personal information remained in the privacy pool. This is the power brought by UX priority.

5. Zcash's Governance Experiment: Development Fund, Cross-link, and the "Encrypted Bitcoin" Debate

Host: Let's talk about Zcash's governance. Zcash has a famous "Development Fund" mechanism, which is seen as blasphemy in the Bitcoin community.

Zuko: Zcash mimics Bitcoin's total supply of 21 million and halving mechanism, but the difference is that we allocate 20% of new coin output to the development fund. As the price of ZEC rises, the size of this fund has significantly increased, providing ample fuel for the ongoing development of the protocol and avoiding the "death spiral" that many projects fall into during bear markets.

Host: But this mechanism has also sparked considerable controversy, especially regarding power distribution.

Zuko: Indeed. Zcash's social contract undergoes a major discussion every four years. We have evolved from funding the founding team to funding non-profit organizations, and now to being controlled by a committee and token voting. As an experiment, I am pleased to see it trying different models.

Host: Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about the meme "Encrypted Bitcoin." What are your thoughts on this label?

Zuko: I really like this meme. The fewer words, the stronger the power.

Host: But some are concerned that the Cross-link mechanism you are promoting (adding staking on top of mining) will undermine Bitcoin's pure PoW image.

Zuko: I am trying a "jiu-jitsu" style response. Cross-link is not meant to become PoS, but to strengthen the sustainability and credibility of the 21 million cap. Whether Bitcoin's 21 million cap can be maintained in the long run is actually opaque, because when block rewards approach zero, it remains unknown whether transaction fees alone can support the security net.

Host: And Zcash attempts to address the dual issues of privacy and long-term security at the protocol level.

Zuko: Yes. Ethereum struggles to add a privacy layer without leaking information due to underlying design issues, like putting tape on a leaking boat. Zcash was born to make privacy a native attribute of the blockchain.

Host: Zuko, thank you for sharing today. Your commitment to Cypherpunk values is admirable.

Zuko: Thank you. Finally, I want to tell the audience: convert an amount equivalent to your checking account balance into ZEC and store it in your privacy wallet. You are not only protecting yourself but also contributing to building a better future. Let's "Zodle" together (a colloquial term for holding Zcash in the community).

Host: Go Zodle, folks. Of course, this is not financial advice; the crypto market is highly risky, so please act cautiously.

Through our in-depth conversation with Zuko, it is not difficult to see that the true value of cryptocurrency lies not in how much it can save Wall Street in settlement costs, but in whether it can build an impenetrable firewall for individuals in the digital age. In an era where AI algorithms are increasingly sophisticated, capable of easily "reading minds" and associating transaction intentions, privacy is no longer a fixation of a few geeks but a fundamental tool for protecting personal choice.

The "static value privacy" logic represented by Zcash challenges the outdated notion of privacy as merely a process in the transfer of funds, elevating it to a "privacy option." Although there are still many challenges in user experience and governance pathways, as Zuko emphasized, the Cypherpunk vision can only be truly realized when the cognitive load of privacy tools is reduced to zero and can serve hundreds of millions of ordinary users.

In this new frontier built by code, "Zodling" is not only a way to store wealth but also a silent vote on digital sovereignty.

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