Buying altcoins requires rationality and avoiding blind following.

Compiled by: Deep Tide TechFlow

Guest: Arthur Hayes

Hosts: Bonnie & David Lin

Podcast Source: Bonnie Blockchain

Original Title: Key! Your cryptocurrency may not rise anymore! But these assets can be bought │ Arthur Hayes │ Bitcoin Conference Vegas 2025【Bonnie Blockchain】feat. ⁨@TheDavidLinReport

Broadcast Date: June 16, 2025

Key Points Summary

In this episode, Arthur Hayes, the inventor of cryptocurrency perpetual contracts, shares his expectations for the future economy. He has spent most of his career in Asia and is well-versed in Asian financial markets. He answers financial questions that even Asian politicians cannot address. How does he view the upcoming trends in the crypto space? Why does he believe that most of the altcoins you hold will never rise again? How does he assess the price trend of Bitcoin?

Highlights

• Bitcoin's price could reach $250,000 by the end of this year.

• Retail interest in Bitcoin remains high due to its outstanding performance, and Bitcoin is the easiest cryptocurrency to understand.

• Most altcoins may not rise again this year because they lack "product-market fit," meaning their products do not meet market demand, and these projects typically do not have revenue to return to token holders.

• Compared to stocks or gold, Bitcoin's scarcity and decentralized nature give it a unique advantage in responding to currency devaluation and liquidity excess.

• When selecting altcoins, focus primarily on the "narrative," which is the story behind a project and the logic that attracts investors.

• Buying altcoins requires rationality and avoiding blind following.

• The relationship between China and the U.S. will gradually become estranged, but it will not end as quickly as some predict.

• Most traders do not genuinely care whether a platform is fully decentralized; they prioritize liquidity and a rich variety of trading products.

• There is not much innovation in the products offered by various exchanges, and the fees are generally the same. Therefore, the core of competition lies in marketing.

• There may be many conflicts between generations, and the government is likely to choose to print a large amount of money to address this issue. For the government, this is the simplest and most direct solution.

Bitcoin Price Expectations

David:

Can you elaborate on the timeline for Bitcoin reaching one million dollars by 2028? You mentioned earlier that Bitcoin's price would reach $125,000 by the end of this year; is that prediction still valid?

Arthur Hayes:

I still believe Bitcoin's price can reach $250,000 by the end of this year. While there may be some fluctuations along the way, that is my year-end target. As for the prediction of Bitcoin reaching one million dollars, my assumption is based on the fact that major global economies may print about $9 trillion in currency over the next few years. For example, the U.S. government plans to support institutions allowed to create mortgages, which are expected to print $5 trillion.

Additionally, due to the implementation of supplementary leverage ratio exemptions, the banking system may purchase up to $1 trillion in assets, including those sold off by foreign investors. I believe the banking system will become more flexible as they no longer need to worry about capital requirements related to government bonds and can provide more loans to the U.S. real economy. This will lead to more credit support for industries like manufacturing, and this credit will eventually flow into the cryptocurrency market.

David:

When the Federal Reserve implemented quantitative easing in 2020, we saw almost all asset classes rise, not just Bitcoin. This was indeed a positive for Bitcoin, but from your analysis, it seems this could also be good news for other assets like stocks and gold. Why do you think Bitcoin would perform better than other assets in this scenario?

Arthur Hayes:

The main reason is that Bitcoin's supply is fixed, with a total cap of 21 million coins. Moreover, in terms of market capitalization, Bitcoin's market size is relatively small, so when a large amount of capital flows into a relatively narrow market, the price will rise rapidly. This is why Bitcoin has been the best-performing financial asset over the past 15 years. Compared to stocks or gold, Bitcoin's scarcity and decentralized nature give it a unique advantage in responding to currency devaluation and liquidity excess.

Bitcoin's New High, Retail Interest Declining?

David:

The market is changing rapidly. Do you think the current monetary easing (money printing) will trigger more "Degen" activities?

Arthur Hayes:

Yes, I agree. If you don't have many financial assets but see inflation eroding your purchasing power, you might choose to invest your limited savings in high-risk investments to counteract this situation.

David:

Why does it seem that "Degen" activities have decreased compared to 2021? I'm referring to retail interest in altcoins. In fact, some have observed that the viewership of cryptocurrency-related channels is significantly lower than four years ago, even though Bitcoin and many other crypto assets have reached new highs.

Arthur Hayes:

I think the main reason is that many altcoins are not performing well. Their pricing is problematic and often overvalued. When you seriously ask, "Okay, your project is live, the hype is over, so where are the customers? Where is the revenue?" the answer is often "We have nothing." However, the fully diluted valuation (FDV) of these projects can be as high as $5 billion. In this case, how do you expect its value to grow another 10 times? That is very difficult. In contrast, growing from $500 million to $5 billion is relatively easy, but growing from $10 billion to $100 billion becomes very challenging on a marginal price basis. So, I believe these altcoins are generally overvalued and struggle to attract new investors.

David:

Some say Bitcoin is now more viewed as an institutional investment tool, leading to a decline in retail interest. Do you think this statement holds water?

Arthur Hayes:

Retail interest in Bitcoin remains high due to its outstanding performance, and Bitcoin is the easiest cryptocurrency to understand.

Your Altcoins May Not Rise Anymore

Bonnie:

Everyone is discussing whether an altcoin season will come. Some say there are too many low-quality projects in this cycle. What is your take on the current situation?

Arthur Hayes:

I believe most altcoins may not rise again this year because they lack "product-market fit," meaning their products do not meet market demand. Additionally, these projects typically do not have revenue to return to token holders. In other words, they are more like high "fully diluted valuation" (FDV) and low circulation risk investment tokens. Such tokens usually do not perform well. So you will see some projects like Berachiain and Monad whose prices have been consistently declining. Although these projects have raised significant funds and generated high hype, their prices struggle to rise due to a lack of actual customers willing to pay for their products or services. However, there are also some excellent projects that have achieved product-market fit, where users are willing to pay for their services or products. These funds flow to token holders through the protocol. I believe those projects that can achieve this will perform well, such as Pendle and Ethfi.

Bonnie:

So, why did those venture capital-backed tokens perform very well in the last cycle, but the situation is different this time?

Arthur Hayes:

The main reason is still the lack of product-market fit. If a project is highly valued but has no customers using its blockchain or products, it becomes very difficult to reignite market interest after a price drop.

Bonnie:

I remember you mentioned in a previous interview that Bitcoin's market dominance could reach 70%. Do you think that will usher in an "altcoin season"?

Arthur Hayes:

Yes, I still believe that will happen; we are likely around 65% market dominance for Bitcoin now.

David:

So before Bitcoin reaches that target, is there a chance for other crypto assets to perform better?

Arthur Hayes:

As of now, that does not seem likely. I believe Bitcoin's market dominance largely depends on Ethereum's performance. If Ethereum's price and market activity do not change significantly, then Bitcoin's dominance is unlikely to see major fluctuations. Currently, Ethereum's popularity has declined, and many investors have lost interest in it. So, if the market cycle changes, I am more inclined to bet on Bitcoin rather than other assets.

How to Choose Altcoins?

Bonnie:

How do you personally select altcoins? What aspects do you usually focus on?

Arthur Hayes:

I mainly focus on the "narrative," which is the story behind a project and the logic that attracts investors. The market is now more focused on whether it can generate stable cash flow. If a project can bring in significant cash flow, that is very important to me. Additionally, I will look at whether investors can receive actual returns by holding the project's tokens.

Bonnie:

What about valuation? Do you pay special attention to that?

Arthur Hayes:

For projects still in their early stages, we usually set a very clear investment cap to ensure we do not pay too high a price. But for those with good liquidity, I focus more on whether they can generate stable cash flow.

Bonnie:

Don't you think the "narrative" changes too quickly? It feels hard to keep up with the pace.

Arthur Hayes:

Indeed, if you buy at the right price, it won't be a problem. If you can get in when the price is low enough, once the project launches, you are likely to profit. But if you buy at a high price while chasing market trends, trying to participate in every hot project, the end result is often a loss. The key is to remain rational and avoid blindly following the crowd.

The Inventor of Cryptocurrency Perpetual Contracts

Bonnie:

Can you briefly share what inspired you to design perpetual contracts? How did the idea come about?

Arthur Hayes:

In fact, the idea came from customer feedback during our early operations. My co-founder and I were responsible for handling all customer support requests and found that many users could not understand traditional futures contracts. They were often confused about why futures prices differed from spot prices and why futures had expiration dates. These issues not only troubled users but also consumed a lot of our time explaining.

So, we started thinking about whether we could design a trading product that had no expiration date and could provide high leverage. This was the original intention behind creating the perpetual contract (Perpetual Swap). After several attempts, we finally designed a product that was easy for users to understand and officially launched it in May 2016. Initially, most people were not interested in this new product, but over time, more and more people began to use it because it solved real problems for users while also alleviating the pressure on us to repeatedly answer questions.

Personally, I usually do not use leveraged trading. If I invest, I primarily buy spot assets directly. I would advise those who have enough time to research the market and can master trading skills to use leveraged trading. But if you don't have the time to delve deeply and lack patience, it's best not to use leverage, as the risks can be high.

Bonnie:

If I plan to use perpetual contracts, what do you think I should focus on first? Is it risk or position size?

Arthur Hayes:

The most important thing is to clarify your goals. You need to be clear about what you want to achieve, such as how much profit you expect? How much risk can you tolerate? Under what circumstances will you stop loss or increase your position? These need to be planned out before you start trading. Because once you enter the market, emotions can easily affect your judgment, which often leads to poor decisions; being well-prepared is key to successful trading.

Why Did the New Taiwan Dollar Suddenly Appreciate?

Bonnie:

In recent days, the New Taiwan Dollar has suddenly risen 10% against the U.S. dollar, but our bankers cannot explain the reason. What do you think?

Arthur Hayes:

Indeed, this is a very interesting phenomenon. I won't analyze it too deeply, but you can refer to some articles, such as the research by Brad Setzer and another economist in the Financial Times (FT), which mentioned that Taiwan's life insurance companies might be among the wealthiest institutions globally. These companies have substantial investments overseas, and Taiwan itself is a crucial center for global manufacturing, especially in the semiconductor sector. However, the Taiwanese government and central bank have long adopted a policy of keeping the New Taiwan Dollar weak. To achieve this, they need to create a large amount of liquidity in New Taiwan Dollars domestically, which is also one of the reasons why housing prices in Taipei and other cities remain high.

These institutions typically accumulate large amounts of U.S. dollar reserves, but to avoid being labeled as "currency manipulators" by the U.S. government, they transfer these dollars to Taiwan's life insurance companies. These life insurance companies then indirectly hold a large amount of U.S. Treasury bonds by purchasing bonds and engaging in structured derivative transactions with international banks. Additionally, many hedge funds also prefer to use the New Taiwan Dollar for financing because the weakness of the New Taiwan Dollar is usually driven by government policy, and they exploit this for large-scale arbitrage trading.

In early May of this year, a sudden concern emerged in the market: if Taiwan's life insurance companies began to sell U.S. Treasury bonds and convert the funds back to New Taiwan Dollars, hedge funds would have to close their arbitrage trades. This led to a significant influx of funds back into the New Taiwan Dollar market, driving its value up sharply in a short period. I believe the Taiwanese authorities chose not to intervene in the market and did not reverse this capital flow by increasing the supply of New Taiwan Dollars. This may be because they want to show the U.S. government (especially the Trump administration) that they are not deliberately devaluing the New Taiwan Dollar but are accepting the fact of its appreciation. I think this is the main reason for the sudden surge in the New Taiwan Dollar, and it may continue to appreciate in the future.

Bonnie:

Do you think a similar situation could happen in other parts of Asia?

Arthur Hayes:

This trend has already begun to manifest. Similar phenomena are occurring in countries like South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand. These countries have also adopted long-term policies of currency weakness while accumulating large dollar reserves and investing overseas. Now, these funds are gradually flowing back to their domestic markets, triggering similar currency appreciation effects.

Will the U.S. Government Really Step In to Buy Bitcoin?

David:

You mentioned a potential risk that if the Democrats win the next presidential election in 2028, they might cancel the U.S. Bitcoin strategic reserve. If the strategic reserve is indeed canceled, do you think the market will face significant selling pressure as a result?

Arthur Hayes:

It's possible. This mainly depends on how much Bitcoin the U.S. government has accumulated and what the fiscal situation is at that time. I don't think their holdings will reach 200,000 Bitcoins (the amount obtained by the U.S. government through judicial seizures). If the government faces budget pressure, these Bitcoins are likely to be sold. Therefore, there is a lot of uncertainty here, but it could indeed become a source of funds.

David:

Is it possible that they might turn around and buy more Bitcoin? After all, they haven't actively done so up to this point.

Arthur Hayes:

I believe it is politically unfeasible for the U.S. government to actively purchase Bitcoin. If the government is going to use fiscal funds, they typically choose projects that directly benefit the majority, such as tax cuts, building bridges or hospitals, rather than buying Bitcoin, which is an asset held by only a few.

Theoretically, the U.S. government could do this; anything is possible. But from a political standpoint, it is not a wise choice. If the government has a large sum of money to spend, clearly spending it on Bitcoin is not the best way to win voter support.

David:

But the government has already won votes through other policies, so they don't need to do such things.

U.S. Financial Regulation and Money Printing

Bonnie:

You mentioned that the U.S. might implement capital controls, is that correct? Especially regarding foreign investors' asset ownership.

Arthur Hayes:

Yes. I think they might start by canceling the "withholding tax exemption." Under current policy, foreign investors holding U.S. bonds do not have to pay the 30% tax that local investors do. If this policy is canceled, it may make U.S. Treasury bonds less attractive to foreign investors, leading them to shift their funds to other investment channels. I believe this trend may gradually become apparent.

Bonnie:

Does this mean the market could crash as a result?

Arthur Hayes:

No. Even if foreign investors withdraw their investments, the U.S. government will print money to fill the funding gap, thus avoiding significant market turmoil.

David:

In fact, we saw a similar situation in early April this year—both bond and stock prices fell, Bitcoin yields also decreased, while bond yields rose. So I want to ask, if the U.S. really implements capital controls, will it trigger a similar market reaction again, leading to declines in asset prices and reduced liquidity in the U.S. financial system?

Arthur Hayes:

I believe capital controls will be implemented gradually, so it won't trigger severe market volatility. The government has realized that sudden policy adjustments could lead to outcomes they do not want to see, such as extreme fluctuations in the bond market or even losing control of the situation. If capital controls are implemented gradually, they will find other ways to fill the funding gap, such as having the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, the banking system, or certain private institutions allowed to create credit at low costs take over from foreign investors who are forced to sell assets.

David:

Recently, we have seen the correlation between stocks, Treasury yields, and Bitcoin re-emerge. Do you think this correlation will continue?

Arthur Hayes:

I don't think so. In the future, there may be some risk-averse events that will lead to increased market volatility. In such cases, Bitcoin may play a larger role as a risk-hedging tool.

Buy All Assets? Buy Non-U.S. Assets?

Bonnie:

You previously mentioned "buying all assets to experience American life." Later, you talked about the "divorce" between the U.S. and global capital relations. Do you think this relationship will continue to be maintained, or will it eventually lead to a split?

Arthur Hayes:

I believe the relationship between the two will gradually become estranged, but it will not end as quickly as some predict.

Bonnie:

When do you think this "divorce" might happen?

Arthur Hayes:

It may take decades.

Bonnie:

So, if foreign capital really begins to withdraw from the U.S. market and flow back to local markets, what kind of impact will this have on the global economy? What would the specific scenario look like?

Arthur Hayes:

Currently, foreign capital is flowing into the U.S. because the U.S. market is performing relatively well; whether in stocks, bonds, or real estate, it has attracted a lot of investment. If this capital withdraws from the U.S. and returns to its local markets, the performance of the U.S. market may be affected. For emerging market countries like Taiwan, Indonesia, or Thailand, this could be an opportunity. The return of funds will drive the appreciation of these countries' currencies, thereby increasing local consumers' purchasing power. As purchasing power improves, people may choose to invest and start businesses in these countries to meet the new market demand. This shift could make the economies of emerging markets more active and achieve growth.

U.S. Stablecoin Legislation

Bonnie:

Regarding the stablecoin legislation, do you think this will force stablecoin issuers to buy more U.S. Treasury bonds?

Arthur Hayes:

I don't think so. I feel this legislation is more about allowing banks to participate in businesses similar to Tether. If I were a bank and could now create my own stablecoin, I could essentially absorb deposits at zero cost. At the same time, if the supplementary leverage ratio exemption is removed, I could use these deposits to buy U.S. Treasury bonds and earn stable returns.

Bonnie:

I heard a viewpoint from the head of an exchange. He believes that other countries don't need to work as hard because the U.S. has already gained an advantage in the competition for cryptocurrency and Bitcoin. After all, the underlying asset people use to buy Bitcoin is USDT, which is pegged to the U.S. dollar.

Arthur Hayes:

I disagree with this viewpoint. In fact, one of the largest cryptocurrency revenue markets globally is among Korean traders. Therefore, I believe the U.S. does not completely dominate this field; it is just one of many participants.

Open Interest Indicator

David:

Recently, the open interest in Bitcoin futures reached an all-time high. I checked my notes, and on May 22, the total open interest amounted to $89.8 billion, increasing by $15 billion in just five days, reflecting unprecedented levels of leverage in the market. What do you think about this phenomenon?

Arthur Hayes:

This actually just indicates that interest in this field is continuously increasing, right? Clearly, the price of Bitcoin has reached an all-time high, and more leveraged positions are being established, with the market generally believing that the price will quickly break through $110,000, or even higher. So I think this reflects an optimistic sentiment.

David:

Based on your past experience at BitMEX, what kind of market reactions usually occur when there is a surge in open interest in futures?

Arthur Hayes:

One key point to pay attention to is the expansion of the "basis." Simply put, it is the premium between the Bitcoin futures price and the spot price. Currently, there hasn't been any particularly extreme situation, such as a premium exceeding 10%.

David:

In trading on BitMEX, do you think there are specific indicators that can be used to predict market volatility? Are these indicators consistent?

Arthur Hayes:

To be honest, I haven't found any clear indicators that can predict this situation. And frankly, I haven't studied this data in depth. So, there are currently no conclusions to share.

Decentralized Exchanges Under Attack (Hyperliquid)

Bonnie:

Recently, an incident related to the JellyJelly meme coin sparked a debate about whether Hyperliquid is truly decentralized. If centralized exchanges can intervene or influence you with $10 million, is it really safe to use decentralized exchanges like Hyperliquid?

Arthur Hayes:

Clearly, Hyperliquid may not be as decentralized as it claims. It seems that the management team of Hyperliquid has chosen to prioritize protecting the purchasing power of their HLP tokens rather than fully adhering to the market's liquidation rules for jelly tokens. From this perspective, yes, it is not completely decentralized. On the other hand, this also indicates that they value HLP highly, as it is the foundation for many market operations.

For me, this actually gives me more confidence when trading on Hyperliquid. After all, most traders do not really care whether the platform is fully decentralized; they care more about liquidity and a rich variety of trading products. If Hyperliquid can provide these services in a relatively decentralized manner, that is sufficient, and we can trade on it with peace of mind.

Intense Competition Between Exchanges and Banks

Bonnie:

Many centralized exchanges are expanding into the payment sector, as this is their obvious next step. What do you think about the development direction of exchanges in the next 10 years?

Arthur Hayes:

I believe the market has now entered a state of perfect competition. The products of various exchanges have not seen much innovation, and the fees are basically the same. Therefore, the core of competition lies in marketing, especially in the U.S. Now all banks are starting to offer similar brokerage services, making it more difficult for centralized exchanges to survive. If banks like JP Morgan prohibit customers from buying Bitcoin, then exchanges like Coinbase and Kraken will struggle to maintain their profit margins.

David:

Speaking of Coinbase, some large exchanges have completed their initial public offerings (IPOs) in recent weeks, further accelerating the trend of cryptocurrency mainstreaming in the S&P 500 index (SPX). Do you think that people investing in the S&P 500 now need to realize that they are actually indirectly exposed to Bitcoin through these index funds?

Arthur Hayes:

I don't think this is something to be concerned about. Many investors simply buy index funds; they hold ETFs (exchange-traded funds), which contain many assets that may not align with their personal preferences. But they don't care; they just want to participate in the market.

David:

Regarding the development of exchanges, as centralized exchanges gradually become mainstream, do you think they will attract deposits from ordinary users and traditional financial institutions like JP Morgan and Bank of America?

Arthur Hayes:

I don't think so, because these banks have a stronger distribution network than cryptocurrency companies.

David:

So, in the foreseeable future, there won't be direct competition between the two sides?

Arthur Hayes:

In fact, there is still direct competition, right? If JP Morgan allows users to buy Bitcoin, and Coinbase also offers similar services, then ultimately the users are buying the same Bitcoin. The core of the competition then boils down to trading fees. If JP Morgan can offer zero-fee trading because they can profit through other banking services, while Coinbase still relies on its high-margin brokerage business, how will Coinbase respond?

David:

If you were to create another BitMEX today, how would you prepare yourself to handle the traffic in the crypto market?

Arthur Hayes:

I would focus on attracting more "Degens." I wouldn't try to compete in the Bitcoin trading space because that would be a losing project.

I would focus on meme coins and new project launch platforms. I believe we can create more revenue by optimizing the new token issuance process rather than competing in the Bitcoin-to-dollar trading market, as that is a low-margin, high-competition area.

Squid Game in the Eastern World

Bonnie:

You've spent a long time in Asia, and I'm curious, what have you learned from Asia regarding money and investment that is vastly different from the U.S.?

Arthur Hayes:

I think Asians generally have a lower level of trust in the government, so they tend to be more cautious and skeptical when it comes to investment and wealth management. Their saving habits are also quite different; for example, gold holds significant importance in Asian households, and real estate investment is very common. This difference in mindset shapes their unique investment approaches.

Bonnie:

So, is their investment style more inclined towards risk-taking or more conservative? Why is the cryptocurrency trading volume in South Korea so high?

Arthur Hayes:

This is related to several factors. First, South Korea has a very high internet penetration rate, making it easy for people to access online trading platforms. Second, the gaming culture in South Korea is very developed, which makes it easier for young people to accept the concepts of digital assets and virtual economies. Additionally, the structure of South Korean society is relatively homogeneous, and competition is very fierce. Although South Koreans are generally well-educated, high-paying jobs are relatively limited, and many people find it difficult to achieve financial freedom through traditional careers. Therefore, many choose to trade stocks or cryptocurrencies to find a breakthrough. This strong sense of competition drives the increase in trading volume.

New Generation Investment Perspectives

Bonnie:

The older generation holds a lot of wealth, and they hope to fund their retirement by selling assets to the younger generation. But the problem is that the younger generation is not keen on buying and accumulating these assets; they are more willing to pay for various experiences. How do you think this phenomenon will develop?

Arthur Hayes:

I think it will be very interesting to observe the regulatory developments regarding cryptocurrencies or other digital assets in the future. The current situation is that the baby boomer generation (those born between 1946 and 1964) holds a large amount of stocks, real estate, and other assets. But the question is, will anyone really be willing to buy these assets? Some young people may be interested in large houses in the suburbs or apartments in the city, but overall, I'm not sure. So if the older generation needs to sell these assets to fund their retirement, and the younger generation is unwilling to take over, this will become a significant problem. Worse yet, if asset prices fall and the wealth of the older generation shrinks, they may not be able to afford their retirement. At that point, the government may choose to fill the pension gap by increasing taxes, shifting the burden onto the younger generation. But will young people accept such an arrangement? That remains uncertain.

Bonnie:

What do you think might happen?

Arthur Hayes:

I think there could be a lot of conflicts between generations. While I can't predict the final outcome, I believe the government will likely choose to print a lot of money to address this issue. After all, for the government, this is the simplest and most direct solution.

Arthur's Fund Layout

David:

What are the current priorities for the asset allocation of Maelstrom?**

Arthur Hayes:

Most of our portfolio is invested in Bitcoin, and we also have a significant allocation in Ethereum. Additionally, we are involved in some project-related investments, including serving as advisors and making direct investments. For some projects with lower liquidity but promising prospects, such as Ethereum and Pendle, these are currently our key holdings.

David:

How often do you adjust your Bitcoin holdings?

Arthur Hayes:

Overall, we do not trade frequently. There may only be one or two significant buys or sells each year because we do not want to operate too frequently.

Our goal is to outperform Bitcoin's returns. If we discover a new project and its performance can exceed the Bitcoin capital we sold for investment, we will use those profits to buy more Bitcoin.

David:

We previously spoke with some extreme supporters of Bitcoin, who believe that the way to outperform Bitcoin is simply to buy more Bitcoin. What do you think?

Arthur Hayes:

I don't completely agree with this viewpoint because it also depends on the time frame. For example, if a token rises from $7 to $300, and you invest at $7 and sell at $300, then during that time frame, your returns clearly exceed Bitcoin's performance.

David:

Last question, what are the upcoming plans for Maelstrom? Are there any new expansions or projects?**

Arthur Hayes:

We are launching an acquisition business. Specifically, we plan to raise funds from investors to acquire certain cryptocurrency companies. The management structure of these companies may be restructured, and we will focus on increasing new revenue sources. In the future, we also plan to go public in the U.S. through a SPAC (Special Purpose Acquisition Company). Currently, we have identified a target company and are preparing to raise funds, hoping to significantly enhance the company's profitability through this plan.

David:

What types of companies and operations are you interested in?

Arthur Hayes:

We mainly focus on companies with very stable cash flow and strong profitability. The company we are currently looking at has good profitability and healthy cash flow, and we plan to complete the acquisition at a reasonable price.

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