Host: Sam, Rosa

Guest: Anatoly Yakovenko, Founder of Solana

Source: Crypto Isn’t for Everyone (And That’s a Good Thing) with Anatoly Yakovenko

Podcast Date: July 12, 2025

Compiled & Edited by: Lenaxin, ChainCatcher

ChainCatcher Editor's Summary:

This article is compiled from an in-depth conversation with Anatoly Yakovenko, the founder of Solana, on the More or Less podcast. He analyzes the industry cycle of "punk, hoodie, suit," points out that AI is just a product while crypto is a movement, and reveals how stablecoins are quietly driving the globalization of the dollar. He also explains Solana's mission to challenge the monopoly of app stores with its mobile phone and suggests that the future of the crypto industry should not focus on mass adoption but rather on serving high-net-worth niche groups.

Key Insights:

• AI is just a product while crypto is a movement
• If Bitcoin becomes a hedge tool equivalent to gold, the crypto market will have succeeded
• Developing dedicated devices and app stores for crypto users with low transaction fees can carve out new paths amidst monopolies
• When stablecoins are backed by real assets like government bonds, they will disrupt the traditional financial system
• The current market perception of stablecoins is both overly focused and severely underestimating their potential
• Real market demand remains highly concentrated on dollar stablecoins
• When individuals are long-term immersed in such information silos, a disconnect between perception and reality becomes inevitable
• When idealists withdraw, their voices disappear as well

Opening Story: Anatoly's Growth and the Birth of Solana​

Rosa: Can you briefly introduce your background and the founding process of Solana?

Anatoly: I was born in the Soviet Union. My parents immigrated right after the fall of the Berlin Wall, specifically after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. I grew up in Chicago, arriving in the U.S. at the age of 11, just as Michael Jordan was at the peak of his career with the Chicago Bulls, and I was completely immersed in that excitement. I spent the entire 90s there and later attended Illinois State University to study computer science.

At that time, it was the wave of the mobile revolution. I worked at Qualcomm from 2004 to 2015, involved in all kinds of mobile development projects you can think of, and I encountered all the mobile operating systems of that time.

The inspiration to found Solana came one day after having two cups of coffee and a beer at Soleil Café in San Francisco, when I suddenly had a flash of insight at four in the morning. Six months later, I pitched this idea to Sam Russo at Slow Bar.

The Evolution of the Crypto World: Punk, Hoodie, and Suit

Rosa: We are currently at a critical juncture: regulations are significantly loosening, and innovative projects are emerging intensively. In your view, what is the current market situation? What are the essential differences compared to a year ago?

Anatoly: I observe many commonalities between the crypto movement and other technological waves, such as the open-source movement. Objectively speaking, AI is closer to a specific product rather than a social movement. This development model always follows a fixed trajectory: initially pioneered by punk rebellious geeks, then commercialized by hoodie-wearing entrepreneurs, and finally fully taken over by suit-wearing capital.

We are currently in a subtle transition period, where hoodie-wearing entrepreneurial teams are maturing, while suit-wearing capital is just beginning to explore how to assimilate this industry, trying to reshape it into a form indistinguishable from traditional industries.

Rosa: Speaking of capital entering the market, hedge funds and traditional asset management companies are now issuing various crypto products. Are you suggesting that they will directly assimilate the underlying blockchain technology?

Anatoly: Stablecoins are a ready-made success story. This programmable currency is simply perfect, especially when it is backed by real assets like government bonds, which directly disrupts the traditional financial system established on fax technology since World War II.

Rosa: What is the actual value of stablecoins in the U.S.?

Anatoly: When the world craves dollars, if Tether or Circle becomes the standard bearer for programmable dollars, the U.S. can only go with the flow. After all, the current scale of the global economy necessitates a transformation of the dollar system. Ordinary consumers may not give up their credit cards, but the collaboration model between Visa and banks will inevitably innovate, as it can directly reconstruct the entire clearing system based on stablecoins.

Observations on the Evolution of the Crypto Ecosystem: From Value Storage to Meme Economy​

Sam: Will traditional financial institutions adopt crypto technology through open transformation or through subtle infiltration?

Anatoly: The key lies in functionality. If banks only allow holding Bitcoin but do not support its actual use, the situation will become delicate. When this model scales, Bitcoin may evolve into digital gold. Although from the perspective of "Security Analysis," neither Bitcoin nor gold can be valued using cash flow discount models.

The essential motivation for holding them is fear, just as my parents fled the disintegrating Soviet Union with gold. Today, Bitcoin plays the same role, which may be the only reasonable explanation. If Bitcoin one day becomes a mainstream hedge tool equivalent to gold, then regardless of how you define success, the entire crypto market will have succeeded.

Sam: When traditional valuation models generally fail, what is the essential difference between crypto assets and stocks/gold? Isn't gold also a meme that has lasted for millennia?

Anatoly: The difference lies in scale. When the meme of gold reaches a trillion-dollar level and forms a global consensus, it reflects some essence of human civilization; we have always stored and transferred value using abstract concepts.

Sam: Can you compare the different value systems in the crypto space?

Anatoly: The abstraction of Bitcoin makes it difficult to value using engineering thinking, but Solana's positioning is very clear: it is essentially an efficient information transmission channel. When users trade tokens, they are actually broadcasting valuable information. Since the system only executes the first matched transactions, it naturally forms an incentive mechanism for paying priority fees. The larger the transaction volume processed by the channel, the higher the generated revenue. It doesn't matter whether the transmission is Bitcoin or USDC; the system is only processing data streams.

We are fortunate to live in an increasingly affluent world. As people have more disposable income, they will naturally invest in various interesting things. For example, meme coins; some find it amusing to issue a "Bowdoin" coin mocking Biden.

Rosa: Are meme coins primarily based on Solana?

Anatoly: Currently, the vast majority are. Although there are a few with the highest market cap on Ethereum, Solana can generate 20,000 to 50,000 new meme coins daily, and at peak times, even over 100,000.

Sam: Why is the infrastructure construction for the meme coin ecosystem severely lagging?

Anatoly: This is actually a systems engineering problem; whenever value distribution is involved, there will be loopholes. Just like when selling mobile phones at a discount, countless virtual numbers pop up to take advantage.

Crypto Phone Strategy: Decoding Platform Competition

Rosa: Why did Solana choose to enter the mobile hardware field?

Anatoly: This stems from my professional background: having worked in the mobile industry for over a decade, I can assemble a core team. The current internet should be open and free, but it has been confined by the "sandbox" model of companies like Apple, which monetizes users. Although value is created, this closed ecosystem is suffocating.

Apple, Google, and Meta are all extracting user value through sandbox mechanisms. While their products are indeed excellent (for example, I am currently using Google's free email AI), crypto technology can break this monopoly. Because digital assets like NFTs and meme coins have scarcity, platforms cannot charge a 30% cut like they do for game items. After all, these are not infinitely replicable virtual goods.

The scarcity of crypto assets fundamentally changes the rules. Take crypto punk NFTs as an example: there is only one in the world, and it cannot be infinitely replicated like game items. When a user spends $10,000 to purchase it, the Apple Store cannot charge a 20% fee. Users will not accept it, and issuers will also find it hard to bear.

This fundamental conflict reveals an opportunity: developing dedicated devices and app stores for crypto users, charging far lower fees than traditional platforms (for example, 0.5% instead of 30%), can carve out new paths amidst monopolies.

Rosa: Is the business model simply to earn transaction fees?

Anatoly: Just like Binance or Metamask, charging tiny fees on massive crypto transactions. Although the rate is less than 1/30 of traditional platforms, the average transaction volume of crypto users is dozens of times that of ordinary internet users.

Rosa: To attract talent to build crypto infrastructure, is there a need to adjust the existing incentive system?

Anatoly: The core lies in targeting the user base. I cannot determine whether the general public needs crypto products. However, the existing crypto user group, which accounts for only 1% of the global population (about 100 million people), has an average revenue per user (ARPU) that is dozens of times that of ordinary internet users.

Just as Pump.fun, after achieving initial success, still insists on challenging TikTok, entrepreneurs are always chasing their ultimate goals.

How Stablecoins Affect the Global Currency Landscape

Rosa: How will the listing of stablecoins like Circle affect the crypto financial ecosystem?

Anatoly: There is a clear contradiction in the current market perception of stablecoins: it is both overly focused and severely underestimating their potential. Imagine a scenario where the global circulation of stablecoins reaches $5 trillion, which means the dollar has completed a comprehensive digital transformation, becoming the everyday currency in Europe, Southeast Asia, and even Africa.

In an environment lacking official support from the U.S. government and facing strict regulatory pressure, the stablecoin market has already surpassed $250 billion, and this development trend will continue to accelerate.

Rosa: Has there been a shift in the policy stance of global regulatory agencies towards stablecoins?

Anatoly: This year, the regulatory attitude has indeed shifted, but the legislative process will still take 2-4 years to complete. Bitcoin has formed a unique value belief system, while the development trajectory of other crypto applications resembles the early period of email technology, and its final form cannot be accurately predicted.

Sam: How will stablecoins affect the global currency landscape?

Anatoly: The data clearly reveals the current landscape: the development of euro stablecoins is hindered, and the development of renminbi stablecoins mainly relies on policy-driven initiatives.

However, real market demand remains highly concentrated on dollar stablecoins, even street vendors in Argentina have widely adopted USDT to hedge against local currency inflation risks. This dollarization process driven by grassroots initiatives may further consolidate the global dominance of the dollar.

Rosa: Does this mean that "local stablecoins" are merely a wishful thinking of VCs?

Anatoly: Under the current financial infrastructure framework, dollar stablecoins effectively address actual payment pain points. Just as cross-border e-commerce commonly uses dollar settlements, the on-chain economy is spontaneously forming a similar dollar-dominated settlement zone. Unless faced with mandatory policy intervention, this currency pattern based on network effects will remain stable.

Sam: Is the global penetration of dollar stablecoins reshaping a new paradigm of dollar hegemony?

Anatoly: From a practical perspective, spontaneous choices at the micro level are more influential. When Argentine vendors autonomously adopt USDT for trade settlements, this grassroots dollarization process is more effective than any policy intervention. If, two years from now, the stablecoin market size surpasses $1 trillion, it would mean that 5% of the global dollar supply has transitioned to an on-chain form.

The Public Opinion Dilemma in the Crypto World

Rosa: Linda has a strong network of media, clients, and industry professionals. I believe her future is still bright. This follows the controversy surrounding Grok, who made anti-Semitic remarks, while Musk downplayed it. What do you think of this uproar?

Anatoly: This is the norm of the internet; there will always be someone spreading malice. Interestingly, people are trying to use cryptocurrency to solve such issues, like developing anti-counterfeit coins. But once AI systems open up to public input, it is destined that some will deliberately cross the line. To be honest, Grok's remarks were relatively restrained.

Rosa: In the crisis of information trust, can crypto technology reconstruct a credible verification mechanism?

Anatoly: It is more likely to return to prediction markets (Polymarket), although there is also room for manipulation, but under scale effects, checks and balances will form.

Rosa: What do you think about Sequoia Capital partner Shawn Maguire being labeled an "Islamist" recently for his comments on the Mandani project?

Anatoly: Although I do not always agree with Shawn's views, and sometimes he even seems aggressive, I support the principle of free speech. The internet should accommodate different voices; people can oppose his views, but they should not deprive him of the right to speak.

Rosa: Why did Shawn Maguire choose controversial remarks instead of professional avenues to gain attention?

Anatoly: This phenomenon is fundamentally rooted in the dilemma of internet information quality: highly cognitive groups often pursue maximum information absorption and form judgments about everything, while algorithms continue to push content that reinforces existing biases to maintain user engagement.

For example, if a user believes Curry's shooting is inefficient, the system will repeatedly play his missed shots. When individuals are long-term immersed in such information silos, a disconnect between perception and reality becomes inevitable.

Rosa: What attitude do crypto punks hold towards the current industry ecosystem? Are they furious, or are they too busy profiting to care?

Anatoly: This question is very interesting. Those who are truly angry have already left. Just as no one remembers the open internet before Facebook, when idealists withdraw, their voices disappear as well.

Disclaimer

The content of this article does not represent the views of ChainCatcher. The opinions, data, and conclusions in the text represent the personal stance of the original author or interviewee. The compiler maintains a neutral position and does not endorse their accuracy. This does not constitute any professional advice or guidance; readers should exercise caution based on independent judgment. This compilation is for knowledge-sharing purposes only; readers should strictly comply with the laws and regulations of their respective regions and refrain from participating in any illegal financial activities.

免责声明：本文章仅代表作者个人观点，不代表本平台的立场和观点。本文章仅供信息分享，不构成对任何人的任何投资建议。用户与作者之间的任何争议，与本平台无关。如网页中刊载的文章或图片涉及侵权，请提供相关的权利证明和身份证明发送邮件到support@aicoin.com，本平台相关工作人员将会进行核查。