Author: Payment 201
Money Travels Season 4 Episode 8, presented by Visa. For decades, immigrant workers wanting to send money home have had to endure incredible friction—because legacy banks are unwilling to serve them. This exclusion, in turn, ignited a wave of innovation: emerging economies have leapfrogged the West with mobile wallets and real-time networks, but it also left a huge interoperability gap.
This episode's guest is Cecilia Tamez, Chief Strategy Officer and Head of Data Science at Euronet Worldwide, overseeing a vast global network that includes Ria, XE, Dandelion. She is herself an immigrant, having personally experienced outdated financial systems. Her grand idea is to transform a massive remittance network into an invisible infrastructure that connects legacy banks with the unbanked population. We discussed why Ria has a unique advantage in building this bridge, how AI is quietly transforming cross-border compliance, and how this connection leads to a future where “work migrates to people, rather than people migrating for work.”
They discussed the following core points:
1. “Expat sending money is called money transfer, migrant sending money is called remittance”—the same fact, different words, carrying different burdens
2. Remittance is not niche: three-quarters of global consumer payment flows go to low and middle-income countries, and historically, they have been informal and completely invisible
3. The truly underbanked may be the banks themselves—they have not plugged into new systems and are being excluded from modern economic activities
4. Quick Q&A: If a financial infrastructure could be abolished overnight, Cecilia would choose legacy correspondent banking
5. From Kenya's M-Pesa to India Stack: Government-deep involvement in leapfrogging enables emerging markets to achieve payment technologies that the West is now trying to catch up with
6. Ria's 30-year-old payment network is transforming into Dandelion—“AWS of money flow,” moving from proprietary infrastructure to external productization
Timestamps:
00:00 The language of money: Why do we call them migrants instead of expats
00:50 Welcome to Money Travels: Connecting underbanked economies globally
01:43 Quick Q&A: Abolishing legacy correspondent banking
03:33 Misunderstandings about remittance: They are not niche payments
04:30 The distinction between expat and migrant: The burden behind the vocabulary
05:40 Interoperability is hope: Aligning globally, connecting everyone
06:26 Why legacy banks abandoned the remittance market
09:23 Leapfrog effect: How emerging markets surpass the West
11:34 Building bridges: Legacy systems meet modern infrastructure
12:40 Inside RIA: Serving the world's largest cash payout network in 200 countries
14:00 Founded by us, serving our own people: A culture of immigrant-led financial services
15:07 Real impact: From medical crises to earthquake relief
16:56 Three times being an immigrant: Personal lessons in financial exclusion
20:21 From remittance to cross-border: Creating the AWS of money flow
24:03 Real-time payments require real-time compliance: AI solutions
26:13 The future of work: When work migrates, not people
29:11 Empowering global work: Paying anyone, anywhere, anytime
30:43 Mission: To be a financial partner in international living
Here are the takeaways from this episode:
The language of expat and migrant The same cross-border remittance is referred to as money transfer when the sender is called an expat, and remittance when labeled a migrant. Cecilia states that distinguishing between migrant worker and expat mixes too many preconceived notions—she, as an expat, is essentially a migrant worker. This differentiation reflects a mental inertia of “division,” but she acknowledges that they are indeed different: money transfer typically involves self-remitting between high-income countries, while remittance refers to immigrants sending money home to support their families.
Remittance is not niche The biggest misconception is that remittances are just niche, troublesome, and inconspicuous payment business. Historically, they have been informal payments, uncounted and unseen, completely invisible—and because of this, many legacy financial institutions have not genuinely addressed this demand as it is too hard to do. The reality is, three-quarters of global consumer payment flows go to low and middle-income countries. Financial institutions not servicing this market might be missing a significantly large segment, and many institutions are realizing this gap now.
Who is truly underbanked Cecilia speaks frankly about the buzzword “banking the underbanked”: those we refer to as underbanked actually live in areas with highly modernized payment infrastructures, building alternative channels and leapfrogging legacy systems. The ones truly becoming underbanked are the banks themselves—they are excluded from modern economic activities due to failing to integrate new systems. A more accurate term would be alternatively banked: 95% of households in Kenya have mobile wallets; the key issue is not having a bank account, but having access to the digital economy.
Quick Q&A: Abolishing correspondent banking If a financial infrastructure could be abolished overnight, Cecilia would choose legacy correspondent banking—payments should not need to jump three times to go from one country to another; this model simply does not work. The most outdated financial practice is that a payment takes longer than sending a text message, using the same internet. The arrangements and coordination in between could be automated and should be as fast as sending a text.
Why banks abandoned the remittance market There are three layers of reasons: First, it’s complex—the more corridors supported, the more regulatory environments to navigate, and banks are inherently risk-averse; Second, technology—banks are tied to legacy technology, and modernizing systems is difficult; remittance is just one item on their long list awaiting modernization; Third, invisibility—this type of payment contains many informal elements, and banks think their customers are only in high-income countries until they realize they have missed many potential customers who could be served, with existing ones moving to other services.
The starting point of Leapfrog: Kenya and India The starting point is Kenya, where M-Pesa emerged around 2007, and the government created a new light banking license for telecom operators to reposition the mobile top-up system as a wallet. Back then, bank penetration was only 17%; today, around 95%-96% of households have mobile wallets. India then built its own India Stack, continuously developing since 2009. Cecilia emphasizes that deep government and regulatory involvement is key—it’s not just a business but an effort by governments to modernize their economies and connect opportunities. By today, these regions possess the world's most advanced payment technologies, with high-income countries now trying to catch up.
Interoperability is the core Bridging the gap requires the fundamental perspective that this presents a financial opportunity for every participant, not charity. The real issue is how to design the extensibility between legacy systems and modern systems and how to establish these connections—this is the origin of the Dandelion product. Current capabilities extend this further: not only does it enhance interoperability between different channels, but it also modernizes the legacy correspondent banking system with which we have historically interacted.
Ria: A cash payout network across 200 countries Ria is one of the largest money transfer companies in the world, servicing 200 countries and regions: real-time payments to banks, wallets, and cash payments—possessing the world’s largest cash payout network. The initial business was cash payments: allowing unbanked individuals to deposit money in one country and pick up cash in another where their families live. As low and middle-income countries modernize, Ria has enabled bank accounts, cards, and mobile wallets, all accessible through a single API. Culturally, this is a company “founded by us, serving our own people”—the constituents of Ria are immigrants, solving the very issues they faced during their own cross-border migrations.
Real impact and three instances of immigration Cecilia shared a recent example: after the earthquake in Venezuela, the biggest challenge was how people could access money when banking infrastructures collapsed. Ria immediately waived fees so that money sent to Venezuela would incur no additional costs. She herself is “three times an immigrant”: moving from Mexico to Canada at age 8; as an adult, she immigrated to the UK and the US. In the UK, she personally faced the deadlock of being unable to rent without an IBAN, and not obtaining an IBAN because she had no home; in the US, she discovered a lack of easy electronic transfers like e-Transfer, paying rent only to receive a letter instructing her to send a check—this is the legacy.
AWS of money flow Ria's technology was initially built for internal use: to fix the infrastructure supporting their own products and fill service gaps. After 30 years, they realized that many banks and fintechs do not possess this network, yet could genuinely benefit from it. Just like Amazon originally built infrastructure for selling books, they later realized it was robust enough to be sold to others. This was Ria's “aha” moment with Dandelion: creating rails to support our own products revealed that the infrastructure and connectivity built could be powerful enough for other companies to utilize.
AI compliance: The constraints of real-time payments Without real-time compliance, real-time payments are impossible. Cecilia’s data science team built an AI platform capable of detecting financial crimes and managing them with surgical precision, reducing friction. The winning companies will be those that virtually do not need to intercept or restrict quality clients—the less they engage in these activities, the more successful the company, and the more satisfied the clients. Another dimension is pure scale.
On AI’s capabilities, there are many discussions, with some positive views and some negative. Our viewpoint is that AI brings triple value in compliance: enhancing precision (reducing false positives and false negatives), speed (truly achieving real-time payments and decisions), and labor costs (allowing precise scaling). This has been a fantastic experience, and our in-house AI compliance platform has achieved remarkable results, which indeed represent the future.
Geopolitical concerns and the future of global work The geopolitical environment changes daily and has become increasingly uncertain. Limitations on physical immigration and cross-border movement are increasing. Therefore, addressing payment infrastructure issues is paving the way for future global work and helping people around the world perform their best work regardless of their living situation. I find this a fascinating evolution, and I believe it began with the pandemic and remote work. In the past, it was assumed that immigration was just a means to work—people from low and middle-income countries sought opportunities in high-income countries. Yet one lesson learned is that remote work is entirely feasible: you can maintain efficiency with a dispersed team across various locations. Thus, if we have the necessary technology—and massive investments have poured into technologies supporting remote work—you realize that without the pandemic, we might still be figuring this out.
Suddenly, we have the infrastructure to support remote work, allowing us to have conversations even from different countries. Hence, I feel that maybe workers no longer need to immigrate; instead, work can be made to “move” closer to people. This is a significant shift in perspective, and I believe it is very important. Meanwhile, with the emergence of AI, immigration policies have tightened as governments fear unemployment. There is much chatter about AI leading to job loss, prompting governments to suddenly consider limiting immigration to preserve jobs for citizens.
However, the reality is that this view lacks foundation—the demand for talent from other countries still exists and will not disappear simply because borders are closed. Ultimately, what we are observing is “work” migrating rather than “people.” And at the end of the day, money still needs to cross borders. One of the things we are doing is serving a full range of clients, enabling enterprises to pay consumers and ensuring payment flows across all spectrums. On the other hand, companies still need to fill these positions and attract this talent.
Some areas, like data science, have a high level of difficulty in recruiting because these skills are in high demand. In hiring, I focus on talent and availability, not on where someone comes from. Therefore, the idea that “work itself is internationalizing” is changing our traditional views on immigration.
How do you solve this issue? How do you ensure that no matter where someone lives or which company they work for, they receive payment at their place of residence?
Cecilia:
I believe this is the strength of our product: We provide embedded payments in partnership with those doing payroll, and we've established partnerships with banks and fintechs to facilitate payments. Therefore, the truly key element is—if you own a payment rail that can implement interoperability across many applications, you are solving problems for everyone: it’s not just about our direct-to-consumer business, but from a wholesale level, enabling any company or financial institution that needs to meet this demand to carry out these payments.
This demand is extraordinarily diverse, and the ways these payments can be embedded, integrated, and co-created are numerous. This is the beauty of our solution—Dandelion takes an API-first approach, but we can integrate in various ways to meet all evolving demands. These needs change rapidly, but essentially it means: a company can have multi-currency wallets, make local payments, or receive local payments; it can pay to mobile wallets or cards, allowing the recipient to choose their preferred payment method.
Cecilia:
I believe our mission is to help those living international lives—people who financially need international connectivity—become the financial partners for our clients, truly supporting their lifestyle choices, whatever their reasons for needing that help.
Host:
Cecilia, thank you very much for joining the program today. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you again.
Cecilia:
Thank you, Max.
Host:
This concludes this week's content. If you want to continue the conversation, you can follow me on LinkedIn. Of course, don’t forget to subscribe to this program on Spotify and on YouTube. In the next episode, I will continue to explore innovations in digital finance that change lives. So, wherever your journey takes you, remember to tune in to the next episode of Money Travels presented by Visa.
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