Organizing & Compiling: Deep Tide TechFlow

Guest: Jordi Visser, Head of Macro Cross Research at 22V Research AI, Founder of Visser Labs

Host: John Gillan, Milk Road Crypto

Podcast Source: Milk Road Crypto (YouTube)

Original Title: Jordi Visser: The Biggest Bull Market Ever Will Come From AI + Crypto

Broadcast Date: September 9, 2026

Duration: About 34 minutes

Disclosure: Jordi Visser publicly stated in the program that he has held Bitcoin long-term and has never sold it, holds shares in BitMine (an Ethereum treasury company), and created a 46-asset index (including 6 publicly traded companies and 40 crypto tokens) as paid subscription content. The broadcaster of this program, Milk Road, also operates a paid community called Milk Road Pro, and the host promoted this product during the show. This article presents the guest's personal views and does not constitute investment advice.

Summary of Key Points

What he bought: three coins. Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Solana. Bitcoin is the largest, and he claims to have never sold a single one; Ethereum is second, with a much larger position than Solana; Solana is the small third. Additionally, he sees BitMine (Tom Lee's Ethereum treasury company) as a "leveraged Ethereum." The invalidation line is clear: if Bitcoin drops below the 200-day moving average and stays there for about ten days, he will admit he was wrong.

Why these three: It’s not about technology, it’s about who is trusted. His original words were that Solana represents speed, Ethereum represents trust, and there's also a "cloud you don't have to worry too much about." In straightforward terms, Ethereum wins because Wall Street trusts it the most; the banking system can't jump straight onto a newly emerging chain; Solana wins because of its speed; Bitcoin doesn't need to be chosen. This is a framework for selecting coins that can be replicated: first ask who traditional finance will recognize, then ask who is stronger technically.

What is really useful for readers is the "size of the pool." He explained why it's still time to buy using a racetrack analogy, translating four terms one by one:

• Meadowlands: The New Jersey racetrack he visited as a child with his father, where professional gamblers gather, and betting odds are pushed close to fair value, making it impossible to find bargains.
• 700 trillion: The total of global real estate, gold, private equity, private credit, and venture capital traditional assets, two-thirds of which are illiquid. The people managing this money "do not trust Bitcoin at all."
• Pompano: A small racetrack in Florida, where the gamblers are tourists and elderly people, who aren't there to make money, so the odds are often wildly incorrect. This pool corresponds to the crypto market, which has a total market value of only over 3 trillion.
• Odds changing dramatically: The odds of a horse are determined by the amount of money wagered in the venue; the more money bet, the lower the odds. This corresponds to Bitcoin's current price. Even a small portion of the 700 trillion moving into this small crypto pool would push the price to another level.

This is the pivot for his judgment of a market of 50 to 100 trillion in five years, with Bitcoin occupying 33%, and the reason he says "it's still time": the current pricing power in crypto is still in the hands of a group of not-so-professional people.

He personally has a stake in this matter. He has held Bitcoin long-term and has never sold it, holds BitMine stock, and has created a 46-asset index (6 public companies plus 40 tokens) for sale as paid subscription content.

Highlights of Perspectives

On the relationship between AI and crypto

"Bitcoin is the purest AI trade. I know some will argue that it should be Micron or Nvidia, but if you believe what I say, AI agents will ultimately disrupt all businesses, and this revolution started less than a year ago."

"You can have billions of AI agents, but without financial scaffolding, they can't do anything because they can't use the Swift system."

"Crypto and AI are brothers; they need each other."

On racetracks and 700 trillion

"The crypto market will approach 50 to 100 trillion in five years. If the market value is indeed that number in five years, Bitcoin will account for at least 33%."

"The people at Meadowlands have 700 trillion, and they do not trust Bitcoin at all. Now, if they come to this small racetrack Pompano and say they want to invest this 700 trillion, then Bitcoin's odds will be pushed to a completely different level."

(Meadowlands is the New Jersey racetrack he visited with his father, full of professional gamblers, referring here to traditional finance; Pompano is a small racetrack in Florida, where the gamblers are tourists and elderly people, referring to the crypto market; odds refer to Bitcoin's current price; 700 trillion refers to the total of traditional assets like real estate, gold, and private equity.)

"I learned to bet on horses at Meadowlands. The odds there are basically fair because they are all professional gamblers. Pompano is different; it's only tourists and elderly people there for fun, not for making money."

On tokenization

"If you buy a house and want to use that house to buy a cup of coffee, you can't. You have to apply for a home equity loan, go through processes, sign documents, and carry an interest rate. But the house is clearly part of your net worth."

"Two-thirds of the global 700 trillion fiat currency assets are illiquid. These are dormant assets. That’s why the speed of money circulation is declining; money hasn’t gone for consumption; it’s stuck in these inactive assets."

"Tokenization is the bridge between the fiat asset world and the crypto world. Money supply will continue to grow, fiat assets will not, and money will flow into things that appreciate."

On Robinhood and meme coins

"The Robinhood community spans both the crypto world and the traditional financial world. In that sense, it’s more important than Coinbase or Circle because it represents this fusion zone."

"Before any volume comes in, the energetic ones are always meme coins. Paul Tudor Jones said he wanted to bet on the fastest horse. Meme coins are the fastest horse."

"You wouldn't let a humanoid robot into your home to keep your kids company; you would first let it move boxes in an empty warehouse. The same logic applies to Ethereum; it wins on trust."

Main Text

Why to be bullish again: After the biggest short squeeze in history, the 200-day moving average has turned

John Gillan: About three weeks ago, we saw the biggest short squeeze in crypto history, adding nearly 500 billion dollars to the entire crypto market cap in just a few days. Since then, you’ve clearly become more vocal. Why is this moment so important to you?

Jordi Visser: I haven't talked much about crypto in the past six months; I’ve been watching AI agents. Since last November, when the agent revolution started, for me that has been a clock ticking, marking the moment when "AI and crypto are brothers" becomes consensus.

John Gillan: So what made you confirm the clock has run out?

Jordi Visser: Two lines. One is the logic line: about a year ago, I wrote a paper on reasoning power, and the macro figures in traditional finance didn’t care at all. Now it’s different; the people I talked to this week about tokenization and crypto are names you all know in the macro sphere.

The other is the technical line. I come from a trading background, and my rule is: in a bear market, when the price is below the 200-day moving average, and the 200-day moving average itself is still heading down, don’t sit there telling everyone it's a bull market, because you’re waiting for something without a trend. Now the 200-day moving average of Bitcoin is trending upward, and the price has also risen above it. The market has already spoken; the world of agents has already spoken.

John Gillan: So your confidence comes from technical signals.

Jordi Visser: Yes. The technical signals have changed, and that’s when I dare to speak loudly. This does not contradict what I’ve been saying for over a year: Bitcoin is the purest AI trade.

Tokenization Theory: Machine brains need machine tracks

John Gillan: Your latest Substack headline is eye-catching, "Tokenization: Machine Tracks for Machine Brains." Is this in response to Robinhood? What's the overarching theme?

Jordi Visser: Last week, Robinhood was upgraded, and its stock jumped 16%, 17%. The news analysis I saw discussed only revenue growth and market forecasts, not a single word mentioned crypto or blockchain.

John Gillan: But that is precisely what you think is important.

Jordi Visser: Exactly. All numbers on the Robinhood chain are soaring, whether it's transaction volume or overall trading activity. I created a 46-asset index, 6 public companies plus 40 crypto tokens, equal weight, with Robinhood included, and Circle as well. When you overlay this chart with Bitcoin, they are highly correlated.

John Gillan: Why is Robinhood more critical than Coinbase or Circle?

Jordi Visser: Because its community spans both the crypto and traditional financial worlds. It represents this fusion zone, and fusion will be the theme of the next decade. They’ve already said, you can have your own AI agent trade for you.

John Gillan: Many people looking at Robinhood’s skyrocketing figures think it’s just another round of meme coin frenzy. How do you respond?

Jordi Visser: Part of that is correct. Before any volume comes into anything, the energetic ones are always meme coins; this is how crypto retail investors behave. Paul Tudor Jones said after the pandemic in 2020 that he wanted to bet on the fastest horse. Meme coins are that horse; they provide energy and trading activity, a high beta in this mix.

But this is just the beginning. I’m certain it will evolve into more because every country is pushing for tokenization. Last week, Korea announced that by February 2027, all assets in their country must undergo tokenization. I was at the New York Stock Exchange in May, exchanging views with a batch of Korean brokerage representatives. Japan and Europe are also setting rules. If you want to trade 24/7, you have to get on board or lose market share.

John Gillan: What does this transition mean for the average person?

Jordi Visser: Instant settlement, being able to immediately use your assets as collateral or for lending. Everyone knows the system is outdated but hasn’t really thought about how ridiculous it is. When everyone realizes this is happening globally, institutions will come in; there’s no other way.

700 trillion of dormant assets: What does tokenization really unlock?

John Gillan: You refer to tokenization as a structural necessity, saying it will unlock private credit, equity, VC holdings that are stuck in illiquidity pools.

Jordi Visser: Everyone should have heard that figure: global fiat asset net worth is approximately over 700 trillion dollars, in contrast to crypto’s 3 to 4 trillion asset class, which is severely underrepresented. And among this 700 trillion, about two-thirds are illiquid—real estate, gold, private credit, venture capital, all of these.

John Gillan: Give a specific example.

Jordi Visser: You bought a house tomorrow, then want to use that house to buy a cup of coffee. You can’t. You have to apply for a home equity loan, go through processes, sign a bunch of documents, and carry an interest rate. But that house is clearly counted as part of your net worth.

John Gillan: So the problem lies in liquidity.

Jordi Visser: Yes. With tokenization, everything will be democratized into liquidity to some extent. Maybe you want to trade your house for coffee, and you have to take a 20% discount, but you can do it. The core is: you have an asset but no cash; you should be able to turn that asset into cash. Now we are facing a bloated fiat asset world, where most are illiquid; these are dormant assets.

John Gillan: This also explains why the velocity of money has been declining.

Jordi Visser: Exactly. Money hasn’t gone for consumption; it has all flowed into these assets and has become stagnant. In the future, you will see more circulation. Intellectual property can also be tokenized. If someone creates something valuable in AI, there will be a token attached to it. All the numbers that current GDP cannot measure, and do not know how to measure, will become part of the economy.

John Gillan: So this is the bridge between two worlds.

Jordi Visser: Yes. The route the government chose during the credit crisis was to inflate the assets to let the whole market financialize, rather than let it collapse into a Great Depression. The money supply will continue to grow; fiat assets will not; money will flow into things that appreciate. I believe that is crypto, and the path is tokenization.

The wealth uncanny valley: AI agents will not replace humans; it is fusion

John Gillan: You particularly mentioned in your video last Sunday the episode where I interviewed Tom Lee. Why?

Jordi Visser: Not because I want to be on your show. I paused his remarks a few times because he shared ideas that made me have to pause and chat with ChatGPT for thirty minutes. He talked about a concept called "the uncanny valley of wealth."

John Gillan: What resonated with you about this concept?

Jordi Visser: I wrote an article called "The Silent IPO," discussing those who lose faith and exit Bitcoin after a breakthrough. Last week, I encountered someone whose company owners I all know, and he told me, "I don’t believe as much anymore." I told him, that’s exactly why I wrote that article.

John Gillan: What did you tell him?

Jordi Visser: I said that not believing at this point means you see this as binary, either this way or that. But what Tom talked about and what I’ve always written about share the same essence: this is fusion; it’s the fusion of AI agents and humans, not replacement.

John Gillan: How will this fusion happen?

Jordi Visser: Very slowly. Regulation takes time, and investors need time too. You wouldn’t let a humanoid robot into your home to be with your kids; you would first let it move boxes in an empty warehouse. Fully autonomous driving is clearly much safer than letting a drunk driver drive, but society requires a long testing period before acceptance. The same logic applies to Ethereum; it wins because of trust, not because it has the best technology. The banking system can’t just say, "Alright, let’s use this newly emerged token."

The Three Horses: Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, and how to allocate

John Gillan: You’ve said Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Solana are the three horses of crypto. Why these three? How would you allocate positions?

Jordi Visser: Bitcoin has always been, there’s no need to choose. This summer, I consumed a lot of information in Maine; the recurring theme has been these three names: Solana represents speed, Ethereum represents trust, and there’s that "cloud" you don’t have to worry too much about, whatever you want to call it. Canton has been mentioned repeatedly recently; every time I mention Ethereum or Solana, someone jumps in saying that I missed Canton. But I still focus on these three, at least for the next year.

John Gillan: How should the positions be divided?

Jordi Visser: Bitcoin is by far the largest chunk; Ethereum is much larger than Solana, and Solana is the small third piece. Additionally, I look at BitMine as a leveraged version of Ethereum, and Scythe as a leveraged version of Zcash.

John Gillan: What would make you change your mind?

Jordi Visser: If Bitcoin drops back below the 200-day moving average for about ten days, I will admit I was wrong. Because I believe this is the starting point of a trend, but there will always be something that can disrupt it.

Racetracks: Why Bitcoin is "the greatest trade"

John Gillan: You often say to think in terms of "betting." What do you think the crowd has missed in the current pricing of crypto?

Jordi Visser: My father taught me how to bet on horses; that was the best training. At Meadowlands, the odds are collectively set by the people there, and it’s full of professional gamblers, so the odds are basically fair. He took me to a Florida racetrack called Pompano, where there are no professional gamblers, only tourists and elderly people—they are there for fun, not to make money. So, when the track is filled with less seasoned bettors, the odds are much better.

John Gillan: How does this analogy translate to crypto?

Jordi Visser: There’s a third element: the size of the pool. Pompano is a small racetrack. If my father brought his group of professional betting friends down there, all betting on the same horse, the odds would change immediately because the pool is too small.

This is what makes Bitcoin the greatest trade for me. I believe the crypto market will approach 50 to 100 trillion in five years, with Bitcoin accounting for at least 33%. Based on that, I can calculate my target price, and I feel solid about this number—the people at Meadowlands have 700 trillion, and they do not trust Bitcoin at all. Now, if they head to this small crypto track Pompano and say they want to bet this 700 trillion, then Bitcoin’s odds will be pushed to a completely different level.

John Gillan: "The people at Meadowlands have 700 trillion." That’s my favorite line since the show aired.

Translation Note: What does this analogy mean in practice? By calculating the two numbers he provided: if just 1% of 700 trillion moves into crypto, that’s 7 trillion dollars, which exceeds the current total market cap of the entire crypto market more than twice (this calculation is based on the guest's numbers of 700 trillion and crypto's over 3 trillion, not direct quotes). This illustrates the meaning of "small pool"; it doesn’t require all that money to come in—just a bit is enough for repricing. Conversely, this also gives a target indicator: when do traditional financial institutions really start betting? Just look at their holdings disclosure, and the next chapter of Druckenmiller buying PERP will be the first signal in his eyes.

Druckenmiller buying PERP: Smart money is already getting in

John Gillan: Druckenmiller's Duquesne Capital recently disclosed about 23 million dollars of PERP holdings in their 13F. That’s a Hyperliquid digital asset treasury company. How do you read this signal? Is Wall Street starting to understand, or is it just one person buying a small position?

Jordi Visser: I have some contact with Stan; when I first got into the industry, I read "Market Wizards," which left the deepest impression on me alongside Paul Jones. One of his talents is: When he hears something he thinks is right, he is willing to jump in early and then do his homework. He once mentioned how after listening to Milei’s speech, he immediately bought Argentine assets and then went to research.

John Gillan: So what does PERP represent in his framework?

Jordi Visser: I guess it’s this: this whole Hyperliquid thing this year is very compelling—perpetual contracts, tokenization, and during the Iran war, oil being traded 24/7 with visible prices. SpaceX can also have a tradable price now.

What does this change for macro traders? Previously, Friday nights and Saturday nights were the only times to sleep without worry. If the S&P and Nasdaq can be traded at any time, your phone will ring when a bomb goes off; that call might also come on Friday night and Saturday night in the future. I think Stan recognizes that this world has already arrived, and with the addition of AI agents, it will only become more relevant. He’s jumping into something he believes has value and is still very early; that’s his approach.